May 11, 2021 • 49 mins
The Ivy League is technically a sports conference, but it's much more than that. Enjoy this special 3D episode with your earbuds on and learn all about these revered, elite universities.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I
Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.
There's Charles w Chuck Bryant, and there is Jerry Jerome Rowland,
and it's Stuff you should Know. Back Together Again on
(00:23):
the Cow about how panicalta, although this will be released
after the other episode where we're back together again. Yeah,
that's so like us, That is typical. We'll screw up
our own reunion, that's right. Yeah, we'll have to use
the way back machine to get things right. Okay, I
think we gotta tell everyone what's going on here, though
(00:45):
hopefully you're listening on earbuds or headphones. If not, we
encourage you too, because this is special episode where we
were recording in three D audio, and I think we
should explain what's going on in this room. I don't know,
I feel like we're transgressing if we talk about it,
and really, yeah, because it might do something to us.
Uh No, I think we should describe this microphone. Okay,
(01:07):
I'm a little scared of it, but go ahead. Well,
I'm on one side, so Josh and I you know,
we finally get back together to record and it's nothing
like a normal experience, not even the same studio, different studio.
We're sitting side by side, which is weird, although I'm
just pretending it's a live show. Uh. And in front
of us is this microphone with human ears? Yeah, but
(01:30):
they're like plastic snow white ears. Yeah, like the creepiest
white you could imagine. Yeah, it's and then they have
like bolts going around and stuff too. It looks like
it looks like I'm afraid of it. That's what it
looks like to me. I don't like it one bit. Yeah.
And the idea is that we talk into these ears
and it produces a different sonic experience for the listener
(01:52):
at our expense, right, because it's three D audio week, right,
it is. So I think a lot of our shows
are doing this, right, I'm pretty sure almost all of them.
So if you're like, man, this is the most amazing
thing I've ever heard, just start go and start listening
to my heart shows this week, because they're going to
have a lot of cool stuff going. Yes, and I
imagine many other shows other than ours will have make
(02:17):
better use of the technology and not just talking to
the ears. Talk to the ear. Hey, you know a
little known fact, by the way, these ears are modeled
after Stellmark's ears. Oh, it's part of his form. Looks
like that's okay. So we're talking actually not about three
D audio today, but instead we're talking about the IVY Leagues,
(02:38):
which obviously is the topic you pick when you're doing
a three D audio stunt. Right, Yeah, And I've got
a couple of quick quotes, if you'll allow. I have
two friends we share one who went to IVY League schools. Well,
my friend Rob Elsie, who you do do not know.
He was my roommate at Georgia for a year and
(02:58):
I still know. Rob's still friends with him. He went
to Harvard Law after going to Georgia, and he said
this that I want to read it exactly. I don't
want to paraphrase. He said, I always had the perception,
if you were there in a grad school context, you
weren't really considered part of the club. And then he
expanded on that and he said, uh, you know a
(03:21):
huge number of your classmates came from Ivy's as undergrad.
So as a grad student coming in from Georgia, he said,
it was almost like transferring to a new school in
the middle of a school you're kind of vibe like, oh,
you went to Georgia and now you're up here with us.
But he did say it was really coolly diverse in
law school. And he said, not just like ethnically diverse,
(03:41):
but he said my class had a former New York
City beat cop, a cardiologist from China, a former grade
school teacher. He said, just a lot of really unique experiences. Uh.
And then I asked our other friend, John Hodgman, Oh, yeah,
that's right with the Yale of course, if he wanted
to provide a quote, and he said this a Yale
(04:02):
man never comments on a podcast. That's pretty funny. Um.
I know. Hodgeman talked about being invited to I think
the Skull and Bones club later in life. In one
of his books, was the Skull and Bones or was
it one of the other ones. I'm pretty sure it
was good. I don't know, I don't know. It was
a great story. It's one of their secret societies. Yeah,
(04:24):
and I'm not surprised to hear that the Harvard Law
School is pretty diverse because l Woods was there and
she diversifies everything. I don't know who that is that's
illegally blonde reference. Okay, oh man, the ear got it
starting to complete a little bit, you know, it twitched
into light. Also, before we really dive in, Chuck, I
(04:47):
have to say, am I dreaming right now? Because we're
sitting next to each other and it just is is
beyond weird. I just have to go on about another minute, Like,
we haven't recorded together in over a year, we haven't
been in the same room together, and over here, I
don't know I have been in a room with a
person who's not my wife without a mask on, same here,
(05:11):
without number one hyperventilating or doing it at all. And
then the fact that we're going to be sitting here
together for like hours. It's just mind boggling to me. Hey,
get back to everybody a science, are you? Yes? It is,
Josh and I will not die because of this. No, No,
because we were backed. We're gonna grow that baby head
(05:32):
out of our back that like the bosses around it happens.
But other than that, we're gonna be good alright. Ivy Leagues. Yeah,
So one of the things that I had, the Grabster
helped us out with this one. Um, and I had
no idea what the IVY League truly is like when
everybody thinks of the IVY League, you think of, if
you know what you're talking about eight schools, sometimes referred
(05:55):
to as the Ancient Eight. There among the oldest schools
in America. You got Brown Go Bears, Colombia Go Lins,
Cornell Go Big Red, Dartmouth Go Big Green, Harvard Go Crimson, yea,
the Crimson tide Um, Pennsylvania Go Quakers. Yeahs um Princeton
(06:20):
Go Tigers. And then yeah, Hodgments all the model Hodgmans.
And of those eight, seven of them were founded before
the United States was even around. Yeah, I mean that's
kind of one of the cool things about the IVY League,
which spoiler, it's really just an athletic conference. That's what
I didn't know. Did you know that? You know, I
think I knew that, But when I first started looking
(06:42):
into this as a topic, you think of IVY League
as a concept, rightfully, I think, because it is that,
but at its root it is it's a sports athletic conference. No,
it's kind of weird because one of the other things
you don't think of when you think of the IVY
League is sports. Yeah, not really, it's I mean, if
you're in defensing, rowing, lacrosse, um wrestling, share backgammon, UM
(07:07):
track and field, you might think of the I V
S and in fact, like UM women's rowing has been
dominated apparently by UM the IVY League's cry Brown and um, oh,
I think it's Cornell women. If I'm not mistaken, I'll
look I haven't written down somewhere else, So if that's
not right, I'll correct myself or totally forget to correct
(07:28):
myself as usual. Um. But yeah, for the most part,
you don't think sports, even though they do play. It's
a Division one A A conference also known as Division
one FCS, so they're not Division one A like they
wouldn't normally play like Georgia or or Alabama or something
like that. All right, they play teams like UM, Howard University,
(07:52):
Holy Cross, UM San Diego, like the kind of universities
you're like, oh, I didn't know they had a College
for All team, Like that's the Division Division one FCS. Yeah,
and occasionally the IVY League will get a basketball team
that's pretty good. Yeah, I'm talking about it feels like
once every fifteen years or so. Yale has had some
(08:14):
pretty long good streaks, right, I don't remember Harvard and
Princeton have had a couple of teams that like went
to the March Madness Tournament and you know, it's h
they're they're kind of fun to watch. It's a bunch
of it's a three point shooting fests from from a
bunch of white kids, is it. Yeah, yeah, those are
fun though. I like three point shooting fests. So I
really love the Golden State Warriors for a while there
(08:35):
not these days though, No, no, yeah, I mean they've
kind of hit on hard time, Chuck. I don't know
if you know. Oh I knew they did last year,
but I thought they were coming back. So the thing
is that was like what we're talking about sports? People
are like, why are you talking about sports? This is
how the IVY League episode, How the IVY League Works episode.
(08:57):
So um, we're gonna basically stop talking about sports in
a little bit. But you have to talk about sports
because it's like you said, it's a sports league, but
it's it's just just completely disingenuous to say, like, Okay,
that's at the IVY League is a sports league. It's
so much more than that has really so little to
do with it being a sports league. It just so
happens that these elite institutions that were elite long before
(09:20):
the sport of football came around, happened to join into
a conference together informed a yeah sports conference. Yeah, but
it it really is a concept, and it's you know,
it's a grouping of schools, like you said, are among
the oldest, the most prestigious. Uh, we'll talk about their
elite status and whether or not that's true. It is
(09:42):
whether or not they are elitists. They can be, but
they're trying to fix that, Josh not you know, those
ears can't see you. I don't know that's the point.
But yeah, I mean it's where I mean, we'll get
to all this, but it's where the presidents of the
unit I did States and Supreme Court justices and CEOs
(10:03):
of huge law firms and companies go to school. You know. Yeah.
The idea is that if you make it into an
ivy League school, you can basically write your own ticket
from the United States, right. Yeah, And it's been that
way for a really long time and for a really
long time that that is just how it was. But
then when they started to kind of expand and try
to be bastions of higher education that serve also seoeconomic
(10:28):
status is give the best and the brightest, regardless of
your income a fast track to that. It became clear
that that's not necessarily how it works. That in a
lot of ways, Ivy League schools really are just this
conveyor belt for dynasties, you know that that just serve
the highest echelons of society. But it is it's unfair
(10:49):
to say that they aren't doing anything about that or
don't do anything about it. They do try to counteract that. So, uh,
if I were to write my own ticket, you know
it would be Jay Walking. Really, I was gonna say Aerosmith.
I didn't think about that kind of ticure. Man. Yeah, man,
you gotta expand your mind. Now I gotta pay some
stupid Jaywalkee. Fine, and you're rocking out to Arios. Now
(11:13):
you met the wrong direction with that, al right, So
I guess we can talk about the origin of the
name IVY League. Um, there is one. Well, there are
a couple of stories that that are not true that
you still hear people say are true in certain circles.
None Ivy circles. Uh. It's that when they first got
together to talk about forming a sports league, there were
(11:34):
four schools, so they used the Roman numeral four, which
is an I V and they called themselves ivy league.
That is not true, or that I saw a kind
of elitist lee. Um. It was the outsiders saw the
Roman numeral four and called the ivy incorrectly, which is
even more like even worse. But yes, that's just not true.
(11:56):
There's another story that's a little closer to the truth
that this one sport writer in the thirties um complained
that he was gonna have to watch the ivy grow
at some of these IVY covered institutions when he was
assigned to cover I think a Columbia football game, right, Yeah,
Columbia Penn game in nineteen thirty seven, and Casswell Adams
(12:17):
was not too happy about that assignment. No, and so
his his editor, guy named Stanley Woodward of the New
York Herold Tribune, took that ivy thing and ran within
created the ivy League. That story is probably not true either,
but it does seem like Stanley Woodward is a good
bet for the person who came up with the term
ivy league, right, and then in nineteen thirty five was
(12:39):
officially used in print from AP editor Alan Gould. But
it seems like the It seems like it might just
be as simple as the fact that these are schools
that literally have a bunch of buildings with ivy colored walls,
not colored, but ivy growing on the walls, right, which
is this kind of um It has like a distinguished
(13:01):
air to it. It's it lends like this umw super
upper crust vibe ivy. Letting ivy grow up the walls
of your institution. It's definitely like it's a certain thing
and it creates a certain vibe. And that vibe just
happens to be exactly what the Ivy League schools are
all about. And I mean they even have like ivy
planting ceremonies for incoming classes. Um. And I believe all
(13:27):
except Yale let ivy grow still. But Yale, I think,
starting back in the eighties started cutting their's back because
it's actually not good for your building. Ivy roots get
into masonry joints, they hold moisture. It's not a it's
a bad jam basically, and it can really cut into
your annual take from your endowment to fix those buildings.
So Yale said no more. They have a little bit
(13:49):
of ivy crawling up a couple of halls, but for
the most part it's gone from the campus. I've got
IVY on my part of one of my privacy fences
between my neighbor and I built that privous defence when
we moved in myself with my own hands, and IVY
started growing and now as a complete wall of IVY
and it looks awesome. Yeah, I think it's a mosquito farm,
(14:12):
is what I've heard, but I don't want to. I mean,
I trim it back, but I'm gonna leave it there
because it looks really cool. It's also chipmunks love to
live in there too, So how can you how can
you do away with the chipmunk house? Can't get rid
of their habitat? Where would they go? I know? Um,
you want to take a little break. Yeah, I'm gonna
go get a Q tip for this microphone. Okay, I'll
(14:34):
be right back. I'm gonna go breathe into a paper
bank for a little bit. That's so much stuff from
Josh and shock stuff you sh all right, chuck. So
(15:01):
we're back. Um. And So the IVY League, as we
were saying, basically came out of the formation of the
sports league itself. It was probably a sports editor named
Stanley Woodward came up with the name UM. And what
I think really just kind of underscores the IVY League's
approached to sports is that the reason the IVY League formed,
(15:24):
and it try there are some stops and starts in
the beginning of the twentieth century, especially in like the
thirties UM, where you know, not all eight were involved
or at all eight were allowed in and some people
were mad and all that, and it just didn't quite
come together until the mid forties when they came together
and formed the Ivy Group Agreement in all eight schools
(15:45):
didn't and they basically did it to say, uh, we're
really worried about this kind of growing influence of sports,
and in particular football, we want to make sure that
doesn't happen in our school. So they formed a sports
league to better control roll football as far as it's
balanced with academic life. That's what the IVY League Sports
(16:06):
League was based on. Yeah, and I think there were
some worries too about the danger of football early on,
because you know, back then, actually I'm trying to think
of what the helmets were like. They were not much.
They were basically like um, like a sheep skin wrapped
around her head and then you hope for the best. No,
I think that was post just leather heads years. I
(16:28):
don't know. I think that was still into the fouries.
I think it was maybe the late fifties early sixties
when they started like the helmet with the single ball
but faces right, No, nothing like that. I remember at
the college or the Pro Football Hall of Fame they
have like the helmets through the years right when you
kind of first come in, and it is pretty jarring
to look at those early ones and drink that those
(16:49):
guys were just so concussed. The widow maker, that's what
they called that leather helmet with the ears. Yeah we're
okay and protected. But yeah, I think they just took
like the little wrestling ears and threw some leather on
top of that. Uh so, Yeah, they signed the Ivy
Group Agreement. They said football is dangerous and we don't
(17:10):
want it to get in the way of school. And
then in fifty four they expanded that to include all
the competitions athletic athletically speaking. And then I think in
nineteen fifty six they actually started playing these sports and
they finally got around into it. Then yeah, and it
was I think there was the Eastern Intercollegiate Basketball League
(17:33):
was where they first played basketball in nineteen o one,
and then they rolled that into the IVY League when
they finally came around in fifty six. So they like
to claim, uh that they are the oldest n C
Double A Division one basketball conference because of that first
UH was that the E I b L Um not
(17:54):
the prettiest acronym I've ever seen. Um, But the that
IVY group agree. And then later on the formation of
the IVY League, UM, like I was saying, they wanted
to balance academics with sports. There were basically like, these
students are here to learn, but if they have time
or they're interested in sports, shirt, we'll let them play sports.
So they kind of um sketched out some rules that
(18:16):
other universities and colleges would find to be utter madness. UM,
no athletic scholarships whatsoever, Like if you you can't go
to an IVY League school and an athletic scholarship, like
financially it's supposed to be reserved for the the the
brightest students of less means or lower means than the
(18:39):
other kids. Right you also, UM, if you end up
in a championship or a playoff or something. What do
you have to do if you're the team, Well, you
don't go. Uh, although I guess basketball is an exception
because they have played in the March Madness tournament. But
I know that if they if I mean must be
(18:59):
on the football teams, probably not gonna make I know,
it's not really a problem if you think about it.
But if they did, supposedly they would have to skip
the ball game. Uh. They don't allow grad students to play,
although that's not the most common thing even at other schools.
They also switched that this year because of the coronavirus.
If you were a senior and you didn't get to
play in but you're gonna be a grad student at
(19:20):
the same IVY League school, they're letting you play one
more year, which is like a huge till a first
year at Harvard law student could play football Yeah and dominate. Yeah,
I dominate on the line and in case law. Uh.
And then what's the other one. Oh, they don't allow
red shirts, right, the practice of red shirting a student. Yeah,
(19:41):
because I mean, you're a pretty serious you have a
serious sports program. If you're taking people and being like
I think you're gonna be better as a junior and
senior or as a freshman. We want to add an
extra year onto your school. So where this red shirt
around for the next twelve Monthent do not take it off.
Real should be disqualified. You're not allowed. So and I
mean these rules have been in place in SSPECTED for
decades now, since the since the nineteen forties when they
(20:04):
first came together. So um, that's not to say though
that even even though they're not very good at football
and not necessarily very good at basketball, that there aren't
like any teams or any individuals that excel at sports
and win national championships. Like I said, um, Brown and Yale,
it was the Yale women who um dominate rowing. I
(20:27):
don't know Brown, Brown and Yaka yeah yeah, um, but
I think it said earlier Cornell. Right now, I think
I said earlier Cornell. But it's it's Brown and Yale,
who are um women who are both good at rowing.
Yeah you could, if you're a wrestler, you could do
pretty well at one of the schools. Yeah, you could
end up on the Gray Fox team or if you're
(20:50):
on the ski team, if you know, if your university
has a ski team. Then that says a lot already.
It really does. First of all, it says you're from
the Northeast. But also it's is that you probably came
from a wealthy high school that had a ski team. Yea,
which is a thing that we'll talk about later on. Well,
sure that these sports are for people with money generally? Yeah,
(21:11):
basically that, um, because there's not a really good basketball
team or football team there. I think their baseball teams
are so so too. Hockey team to a little bit. That. Um,
you basically have to come from a wealthy school district
in high school to excel at sports in these universities. Yeah,
I mean, I guess that kind of sets us up
(21:32):
for the big question is whether or not these are
elitist schools. I think they're sort of in a I
don't know about a pickle. I think they're in a
constant pickle trying to be elite without appearing elitist. That's
a that's a tough act, believe me. Yeah, Oh that's funny. Um,
And they are elite schools, Like if you go to
(21:55):
an Ivy League school, they say you have a five
to sixfold advantage relative to random distribution of attainment of
a top position in business or government. So you're five
to six times more likely to be a CEO or
to be that Supreme Court justice, right, especially if you
go to business or law school. Right, but yeah, anything
finance or law. I think eight of the nine current
(22:17):
justices went there, except for Amy Coney Barrett, who went
to Notre Dame Well the Catholic Ivy Yeah, that's true,
I guess, um. Yeah, so yeah, if you're on the
Supreme Court, there's an extraordinarily high likelihood you are a
graduate of not just an undergraduate of um An Ivy League,
but also a graduate of an Ivy League law school.
It's just it's just not done to have a Supreme
(22:39):
Court justice who isn't so. Amy Comy Barrett definitely bucks
that trend. Um. But presidents tend to be. I think
thirty four of all presidents in the United States ever
went to um An Ivy League school, either for undergrad
or grad. And then five of the last six. Can
(23:00):
you guess who number six is who did not go?
Joe Biden. Joe Biden went. He went to Delaware and
he went to Syracuse Law. Yeah, because the previous president
went to Wharton. Well, he went to Penn and then
I think he went on as well. And Wharton's the
business school at you pen, right, and just crushed it. Yeah,
(23:20):
Obama went to Columbia, that's right. Um, George w went
to Yale because he was a legacy. His father went
to you and he's a skull and bones guy to it.
What about Clinton? Where did he go? Clinton went to
Georgetown and then I believe he went to Yale. Law.
I was so hoping he was a razorback you think so?
I think I moved to Arkansas after that. They were like,
(23:43):
what state can we take over? Um? So, as far
as the education goes, you know, it's sort of one
of those things where the education, of course is great.
No one's gonna knock an IVY League school education with
a straight face, so don't think we're doing that. But
there is that weird effect where getting the job because
(24:06):
you have that on your resume is a thing you
can't you just can't deny that, right. It's just the
reputation of the IVY leagues alone, Yes, sustain their reputation.
Success breeds success exactly. So if you have a degree
from an IVY League university. The doors are going to
(24:29):
open for you just because you have a degree from
an Ivy League university, Like you can stipend for position
at a Wall Street law firm and be less qualified,
probably as far as actually doing the work goes, than
somebody who went to Georgia who's smarter and more capable
(24:50):
than you. And you're probably going to get the job
because you went to an Ivy League school, because they
have the reputation. And the thing is, the Ivy Leagues
are well away of this. They know that that it
would be really easy to rest on their laurels and
just you know, let anybody in as long as your
parents have the money to donate, like a new wing
(25:11):
of the library or something. The library I don't know,
but it always donate a food all yeah, great, um.
But the I think that they try to balance that
out as much as possible, at least to some degree,
because they know that eventually the reputation is going to
fall because it turns out that all of the Harvard
(25:31):
people are really actually dummies. The problem is is in
the meantime, those people who are making their way to
the top just by virtue of having gone to the
Ivy leagues aren't necessarily the best in the brightest, and
since they're aggregating at the top, that means the leadership
is not necessarily the best in the brightest. And they're
(25:53):
also recruiting and drafting and opening doors and creating policies
that benefit people like them rather than necessarily everybody else.
And then the final factor of this chuck is that
because those people went to IVY League schools and the
rest of us are just awed by Ivy League schools.
The fact that they have Ivy League credentials means that
(26:14):
their ideas, that those policies they come up with, that
the that the decisions they make are inherently right because
their IVY League credentials. So it's a big or borrows
with like multiple tales going into multiple amounts, but it's
all one big thing. It's a human centipede, and it's
like a real right, it's a real um, it's a
(26:35):
real like balancing act because the the fate of the nation,
in a large part um not entirely, we'll get to that,
but in large part rests in the in the hands
of these these IVY League schools who are producing tomorrow's leaders.
That's true there was a study that found that top
executives are not dominated by these elite schools, but they
(26:57):
are overrepresented. So, like I said, that five to sixfold
advantage to get that top position in the business if
you went to an IVY League school, I think they're
all about on part though with like m I T, Stanford, Caltech, Um,
you know, there are plenty of non IVY schools that
also are kind of up there with them as far
as um, maybe not representation, but at least um breathing
(27:21):
in the same rarefied air. Yeah, there's a there's a
stratum called IVY Plus which includes Stanford, Duke, University of Chicago,
and m I T. As people consider that, and then
there's also people who are like, well, don't forget Georgetown
and don't forget you know, um, I think you see
Berkeley is sometimes yeah, Berkeley probably, So there's in a
(27:42):
few Northwestern maybe yes, um, if you if you step back,
they would look at these schools on paper, some of
these other schools probably blow IVY League schools out of
the water as far as just like education, Yeah, but
in specific areas, there are specific like if you want
to to understand business, go to Warton Business cool. If
you want to like practice law in any like to
(28:04):
learn law, Harvard Law, Yale Law, those are really good choices. Uh.
If you want to learn everything you need to know
about the food service industry, go to Cornell. Uh. They
have a huge like restaurant, Hospitality and food science division. Yeah.
I don't know why, but it's as good as it
gets right. So um, But there's other schools that are like,
like trying to go to Harvard for engineering rather than
(28:25):
m I T. Like you'd be a dumb to do that.
So in that sense, m I T blows Harvard out
of the water. The thing is, it doesn't matter. It's
m I T is not Ivy League school. Harvard is
so Harvard has an extra veneer of prestige that the
average dumb dumb will just be blown away by right.
Georgia has a good journalism school, sure, great veterinary program,
(28:47):
large animal vet Uh. Yeah. And then for guys like us,
it's also a place where you could go and get
a decent state school education and have a lot of fun. Yeah.
Cheapest forty ounces in the state. Oh man, Georgie used
to be really cheap. I think tuition has gone up.
But back when we were there, like it was like
six dollars a quarter or something. It was ridiculous. Wow,
(29:10):
that is that's cheap. I'll bet it's going up. And
George has got a lot harder to get into as
well since we were there, Like I don't think the other. Yeah,
well I'm gonna start it, George. Uh. These schools too, Like,
not only do you have to have a lot of
money to go there, they are incredibly rich and wealthy schools. Um.
(29:31):
They have endowments totaling for all of them combined a
hundred and forty billion dollars, with Harvard's endowment alone being
forty billion. I think the lowest is Brown's Piddley little
four point two billion and ed conjectures here, But I
think he's probably kind of right that. You know, when
you have an endowment, it's not um, it's not just
(29:52):
a big loaded bank account, but it's it's an investment portfolio.
Could to make more money on that money. And if
you leave a ton of money is a Harvard alum
to their endowment fund and then you end up running
a business, they might invest in your business or something
like that. It's possible. I haven't seen anything, but I
mean it makes sense. Then there's like such a you know,
(30:12):
one hand washing the other kind of thing. Ivy like
schools in particular, because they are these conveyor belts for
a dynas one hand washing the other. Yeah, okay, you
haven't heard that. I don't think so how else are
you gonna write your own ticket rights? I've heard of one.
You know, you scratch my back out, scratch yours. One
(30:33):
hand washes the other, same thing. But how do you
wash your hand without just with just one hand? That's
what I'm saying. Okay, I got you, don't. You don't
in there right here? Kid it man, that thing's so creepy.
I'm just waiting for blood to start trickling out a
one of them. That means we're doing a bad job.
(30:53):
Should we take another break? Yeah, let's take another break.
We'll come back and talk more about endowments, because it
is a thing, all right, So much stuff from Josh
and shock alright, Chuck, So we're talking about endowments. You
(31:24):
said Harvard's alone is forty billion. They're will endowed just
right exactly, um hanged, just just from that alone, just
the fact that they have in their investment portfolio forty
billion dollars they reaped I think two hundred nineties six
billion dollars million. Sorry, they made two hundred ninety six
(31:47):
million dollars in growth off of their forty billion portfolio. UM.
I think in two thousand seventeen, that's great. It's good return.
It is a great return, UM. And it was tech free.
Had it happened in two thousand and sixteen, it would
have been tax free those universities and times even though
their private universities, their nonprofit universities, and their endowments were
(32:10):
non taxed until ironically, the two thousand seventeen tax package
was passed and there was one point five tax one
percent tax on university endowments. Yeah, so Harvard made a
big stink about how they had to cough up fifty
million dollars in taxes that year. But if you're using
all two nine million from that year for things like
(32:33):
you know, building a new library wing, maybe a food hall,
I don't know. Or if you're a teaching hospital, university hospital, um,
you might build a new hospital wing or something like that. Supposedly,
supposedly you're supposed to use a lot of this also
to basically pay for free rides for UM low income
(32:54):
students who who otherwise wouldn't be able to make it.
That's what endowments are meant to be for. But just
the fact that the these these UM universities has that
huge adownmants make some targets for for ire and it
just kind of underscores just how unlike the rest of
us they are. You know, a hundred hundred forty billion total. Yeah,
(33:18):
between the eight schools. That that definitely separates them in
that respect. But the the from that adownmant though, they're
they're investing in their students education. That's what they're supposed
to be doing with the overall and there is a
big difference. If you go to an IVY League school, UM,
you are probably going to have about nine dollars invested
in you personally, uh each year over the course of
(33:42):
your career. If you go to an IVY League school,
every resource you need, I imagine, yea, the professors are
well paid, so you're gonna be the best of the best.
The facilities are in great shape. Exactly, we're out of
gas again, UM and a second tier school, and I
use I just made air was choking tests, and so
can the year. UM. The second tier schools, which is
(34:05):
basically anything that's not like the top twenties maybe twenty
five universities, but still really good schools. Phil spend an
average of about twelve thousand dollars per student compared to
what right now, So they are putting money into their
students education, short of the endowment, but still forty billions
(34:25):
a lot of money. It's a lot of money. As
far as getting into an IVY League school, it is
tough obviously. Uh. Their acceptance rates are anywhere from about
three and a half percent to fifteen percent, depending on
the year in the school. I think Harvard has the
lowest rate. UH, Stanford Northwestern and Georgetown or non ivys
with about the same acceptance rate. So it's not specific
(34:49):
to IVY schools. UM. But there have been a couple
of scandals in recent years, notably a couple of years
ago with Lori Laughlin and who was the other actor, Um,
the lady from married Yes, Suzanne Summers, Yes, sers, I
(35:11):
can't remember her name. She was on Desperate Housewives, Felicity. Uh,
boy Macy skated on that too, didn't he. Oh yeah,
he was like good lucky. Yeah, prison, But that was
the big revelation that parents who had rich parents, who
had kids that were kind of not qualified to get
(35:33):
into these schools. Let's say, we're very diplomatic. We're trying
to make we're trying to get them into school by
uh getting them in through the sports program. So we
said that they can't offer scholarships, and that's true, But
what they can do is a coach can go to
the administration and say, hey, like, you know, I know,
(35:56):
you saved us a few slots for admission at least,
and they won't get a scholarship, but can you can
you get Lorie Laughlin's daughter in here on a field
hockey scholarship? And they're like, but she doesn't play field hockey,
but she never has, Like, well, I know, but they
made quite a donation to the new science wing or
the field hockey wing. The coach that x me on
(36:16):
the hockey. Hey, but this was bribery, and they you
know she's is she in jail now or is she
just out? I believe she's out. Her husband, you know
she's out. Her husband may be out again now. I
think they reduced a sentence to they threw the book
at him for six months, and I think they had
him served like a month or something, right, because they
kind of fought things. I remember Felicity Huffman really just
(36:39):
eight Crow apologized to herself at the mercy of the
court of public opinion and the real court, which was
definitely the right move. I think she was very ashamed
and came out and said, so, where's Lori Laughlin's kind
of like, I'm gonna fight this. It's like, that's not
the right move. That was a great Lori Lawlin impression,
by the way, but that was a very big deal.
(37:00):
Like that kind of rocked the entertainment slash academic world
for a little while. Yeah, and I think a lot
of people didn't realize that IVY leagues have these coaches
slots where the coach can say, let this kid in.
I want them on my fencing team. Best fencer I've
ever seen. You ought to see this guy with a foil, right,
But yeah, the idea that not only were these kids
not qualified to go to an IVY league school, but
they also weren't even any good at sports. They were
(37:21):
just using this backdoor thing that's not good at all.
What about that other the anti Asian bias scandal. Yeah,
so the UM. You know, you talked about Harvard's acceptance
rate being three point four percent. That was for that's
low even for Harvard. It's not necessarily Harvard's fault that
their acceptance rate is so low. They usually have about
the same number in each class every year and have
(37:45):
for decades. It's just that more and more people are
applying to it. Apparently, there's there's academic coaches that UM
basically just just help you fill out forms and tell
you how to apply to different colleges, and they their
their rise has been commensary with the flood of applications
in the IVY leagues. So more and more people are applying,
(38:08):
but the which means the acception rate is getting lower
and lower, even though the class size has been the same.
The point of that is that these classes are curated
almost idea leagues. And if you just went on academics
just a plus four point oh somehow their g p
A was even above four point or four period. Oh
(38:29):
I'm sorry, um, they you would have way more Asian
children in the IVY IVY League schools, but you don't.
So this this group sued Harvard and said you know,
you have an anti Asian bias. And Harvard was like,
it's not an anti astion biased. We more just sculpt
each class. Not only did they look at a well
(38:52):
rounded student with a bunch of different different like interest
in pursuits and community service in addition to their grades.
They try to look at a class like that to
the as symbol what does this class look like? And
you know, for what it's worth, they were I think
they were sued by an anti affirmative action group and
(39:12):
they said, um, they won, and then they won the
appeal Harvard yeah, and yeah, Harvard won. Then they won
the appeal and I think it's still in the courts
for I guess another repeal. But um, yeah, I mean
I think they're it seems like they're trying to do
that in the name of diversity, which is ironic because
you know, if you're a minority, if you're Asian, your minority. So, um,
(39:37):
I could see crying foul against that. But there, you know,
there are lots of minorities, and I guess they're trying
to create a diverse class at least that's what they're saying. Yeah,
and they and one of the places where diversity really
needs to be boosted. Though, is UM on socioeconomic status?
Apparently there's UM. There's a group called UM Opportunity Insights
(39:58):
dot org and it's some IVY leaguers who got together
to kind of study how IVY leaguers serve American society
and UM. They released these detailed reports every once in
a while, and the most recent one says that UM,
the middle middle income kids are being left out, that
the like the IVY leagues are going for like the
(40:21):
real like rags to riches success story to boost like
their image, and as a result, they're also they're leaving
out some of the middle where if you just took
kids who were who had scored at least a fourteen
hundred on the s A t um as as qualification
and left income out of it middle income kids, would
(40:44):
I think the representation would go up by like ten
percent or something crazy like that. UM. But that's not
the case. You have very very high income kids, like
for example, if you're student, or if you're student with
parents in the top one per cent of Amrican economic brackets, UM,
you're seventy seven times more likely to attend an IVY
(41:07):
league than a student with a parent and the lowest
twenty which is crazy because there's only one point two
million households in the one in the top one percent,
but there's twenty one million households in the bottom twenty percent.
But those kids in the top one percent are still
seventy seven times likelier to go to an Ivy League school.
(41:27):
That right there is do you just drop the mic?
Right there? There's you? You just there's no argument like
they serve the the highest chalons of American society and
help the next generation stay in the highest echelons of
American society. If you drop this mic, you're gonna injure that.
Here another stat here. In seventeen, more than twenty percent
(41:48):
of Dartmouth students were from the top one percent of
earning families, and fourteen point four percent came from the
bottom six of families by income. And at don't have
the stat but I guarantee you that most of those
fell between like the fiftieth and sixty percentile. I'd be
curious to see what like the bottom ten percent looks like,
(42:09):
but it's it's probably super super low. So um. I
saw another study from the Opportunity Insights where they were
saying like, Okay, the key here what you're looking for
to raise people up out of the lower socioeconomic levels
to the higher ones through a college education are two.
There's two factors. One is access. They've got to be
(42:30):
able to have access to that education. So how how
many lower income students is this this U university accepting?
And then mobility, which is how many go from the
bottom quintile to the highest quintiles in their career in life? Yeah,
like say ten years on? Yeah, right or yeah, over
their lifetime there, Well, they found that I vs are
(42:51):
not They're great at mobility. They can get people out
of the bottom twenty pent in the top no problem,
but so can second tier school and second tier schools
have much greater access. It's much easier to get in,
and they're also a lot cheaper over there. I think
Harvard's like fifty grand a year now or something like. Yeah,
but although if you are in that bottom income bracket,
(43:12):
you're gonna be getting grants out the wazoo, right, but
it's hard to get in. Access is shut down. The
mobility is pretty good, but it's also just as good
as a second tier. Now, if you take away that
moving people from the bottom twenty to the top. And
you look at moving people from the bottom twenty percent
to the top one percent, then Ivy leagues just below
(43:33):
everybody else out of the water. There's a good chance
that if you are from the lowest twenty percent of
earners and do we're talking dollars a year less, there's
twenty twenty two million households in the US that make that. Um,
if you come from that quintile and you get into
(43:54):
an IVY League school, there's a pretty decent chance you're
going to be in the top one percent of earners
ten years after you graduate. Yeah, what is this stat
doesn't make sense here at the end, then Princeton students
were pell grant eligible, but only one point three percent
of their students entered poor and became rich later in life. Yeah,
i'd be right. I don't. Yeah, I think different studies
(44:15):
turn up different stuff. So that is just from a
different study. And it also it has to do with
the measurement. I mean, like maybe this is over lifetime
earnings or something like that. Right, That's just that was startling. Um,
there is a good quote here. I think we should
read that. Uh, and it's it's sort of on the
idea that just because you got into Harvard Um, your
(44:36):
problems are solved as far as your connections and socially,
and I think it has the reputation once you're if
you're a student there, and if you are from one
of those lower income families that sort of like Robbie
coming from Georgia to their law school, they're like, well,
you're still not really one of us. You got in
and you're getting these grants. I know you're smart and everything,
(44:57):
but you're you're not a blue blow like we are.
And we're gonna have a bunch of clubs that are expensive,
have really expensive dues and secret societies, and we can
still segregate within this school pretty successfully, and you're not
gonna have the connections we're gonna have even though you
went here with us. Uh In this one student from
UH I think he was Haitian said in the Washington
(45:21):
Post article, they're constant reminders they have to forge a
place for myself within the world that has been constructed
for someone else. So, you know, it's great that they
are getting some of these kids in the school and
trying to diversify, but that's only step one into truly integrating.
You know. Yeah, that's exactly what happened to Elwood's. Yeah,
(45:42):
I get the reference. Now you got anything else? Have
you not ever seen Illegally Blonde? I don't think so.
It's all the way through Emily has for sure, and
Legally Blond two is one of the better sequels ever
Blonde Ambition, I think so. Yeah, she goes through the
same exact thing, but this time in d C. I'm
not sure how I knew that. Um, well, you just
(46:02):
pull it out of thin air. That's right, you got
anything else? Got nothing else? Okay, everybody, let's ivy leagues.
And that is also the end of our three D
recording um career, at least after this listener mail, because
I said, three D recording career. Hope you enjoyed it.
I'm over here now, I'm over here. Now I'm done here.
(46:22):
Do you think that does anything? Probably? Yeah, it just
made Jerry took all uh and then you gotta finish
your part. Now, did you already forget listener mail? Yeah? No,
I said, that's that's a listener man. How you did,
I said, And that means it's time for listener mail?
Because I said, you did say that. Yeah, I miss Mike.
You all right, Well here I'll do it again. You're ready,
(46:43):
we should leave this part in. Okay, don't even forget already.
I Well, then I get I guess I did. Uh. Well,
since Chuck said I guess I did, that means it's
time for a listener mail. Hey, great set up. I'm
gonna call this feminism from Emily in Chicago. Hey, guys,
the area episode you mentioned doing at least a short
stuff on Betty for Dan. I for one, think it's
(47:05):
a great idea because she's done a lot of important work.
It doesn't really get talked about. But I wanted to
bring you, guys, bring up to you guys. If you
decide to pursue an episode on her, you should know
that she led a movement that was exclusive to white,
middle class heterosexual women. The sixties and seventies was a
time period it was really rich in movements for women
of UH, for women people of color in the LGBTQ community.
(47:26):
Yet all these movements, namely Second Way feminism UH in
the American Indian movement, was guilty of this too. They
excluded poor women, women of color, and women who identified
as lgbt Q women in these groups were advocating for
the same rights as the leaders of these movements, but
oftentimes her voices were just straight up ignored. Betty for
Dan was notorious for budding heads with and kicking out
(47:48):
these types of women, like Rita may Brown, who was
a great feminist writer. This wave of feminism in the
sixties and seventies was definitely important and did deliver great
strides for women, but not all women. I do wanna
don't want to rain on anyone's breed here in any way,
shape or form, but just shed a bit of light
on the many years, I'm sorry, many layers of these movements.
It's important to celebrate the victories for women in minority
(48:09):
groups during this period, but it's also important not to
gloss over the mini flaws that were present. You guys
are great. Your show is an absolute delight. I can't
wait to listen to future episodes. Please keep up the
good work, Take care of yourself, stay safe, stay healthy.
Emily from Chicago, Thanks Emily. It's a great point. Totally
great point. I've learned over the years and from being
a history major, that things, even the most celebrated things,
(48:32):
are rarely just perfect. Yeah. Us. Well, I mean maybe
an exception of the rule. All right, great, Well, if
you want to get in touch of this, like Emily
from Chicago did and say hey, I'm blank from blank
let us know, you can email to us at stuff
podcast and iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know
(48:55):
is a production of I Heeart Radio. For more podcasts
my heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio o app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
M HM.
Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I
Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.
There's Charles w Chuck Bryant, and there is Jerry Jerome Rowland,
and it's Stuff you should Know. Back Together Again on
(00:23):
the Cow about how panicalta, although this will be released
after the other episode where we're back together again. Yeah,
that's so like us, That is typical. We'll screw up
our own reunion, that's right. Yeah, we'll have to use
the way back machine to get things right. Okay, I
think we gotta tell everyone what's going on here, though
(00:45):
hopefully you're listening on earbuds or headphones. If not, we
encourage you too, because this is special episode where we
were recording in three D audio, and I think we
should explain what's going on in this room. I don't know,
I feel like we're transgressing if we talk about it,
and really, yeah, because it might do something to us.
Uh No, I think we should describe this microphone. Okay,
(01:07):
I'm a little scared of it, but go ahead. Well,
I'm on one side, so Josh and I you know,
we finally get back together to record and it's nothing
like a normal experience, not even the same studio, different studio.
We're sitting side by side, which is weird, although I'm
just pretending it's a live show. Uh. And in front
of us is this microphone with human ears? Yeah, but
(01:30):
they're like plastic snow white ears. Yeah, like the creepiest
white you could imagine. Yeah, it's and then they have
like bolts going around and stuff too. It looks like
it looks like I'm afraid of it. That's what it
looks like to me. I don't like it one bit. Yeah.
And the idea is that we talk into these ears
and it produces a different sonic experience for the listener
(01:52):
at our expense, right, because it's three D audio week, right,
it is. So I think a lot of our shows
are doing this, right, I'm pretty sure almost all of them.
So if you're like, man, this is the most amazing
thing I've ever heard, just start go and start listening
to my heart shows this week, because they're going to
have a lot of cool stuff going. Yes, and I
imagine many other shows other than ours will have make
(02:17):
better use of the technology and not just talking to
the ears. Talk to the ear. Hey, you know a
little known fact, by the way, these ears are modeled
after Stellmark's ears. Oh, it's part of his form. Looks
like that's okay. So we're talking actually not about three
D audio today, but instead we're talking about the IVY Leagues,
(02:38):
which obviously is the topic you pick when you're doing
a three D audio stunt. Right, Yeah, And I've got
a couple of quick quotes, if you'll allow. I have
two friends we share one who went to IVY League schools. Well,
my friend Rob Elsie, who you do do not know.
He was my roommate at Georgia for a year and
(02:58):
I still know. Rob's still friends with him. He went
to Harvard Law after going to Georgia, and he said
this that I want to read it exactly. I don't
want to paraphrase. He said, I always had the perception,
if you were there in a grad school context, you
weren't really considered part of the club. And then he
expanded on that and he said, uh, you know a
(03:21):
huge number of your classmates came from Ivy's as undergrad.
So as a grad student coming in from Georgia, he said,
it was almost like transferring to a new school in
the middle of a school you're kind of vibe like, oh,
you went to Georgia and now you're up here with us.
But he did say it was really coolly diverse in
law school. And he said, not just like ethnically diverse,
(03:41):
but he said my class had a former New York
City beat cop, a cardiologist from China, a former grade
school teacher. He said, just a lot of really unique experiences. Uh.
And then I asked our other friend, John Hodgman, Oh, yeah,
that's right with the Yale of course, if he wanted
to provide a quote, and he said this a Yale
(04:02):
man never comments on a podcast. That's pretty funny. Um.
I know. Hodgeman talked about being invited to I think
the Skull and Bones club later in life. In one
of his books, was the Skull and Bones or was
it one of the other ones. I'm pretty sure it
was good. I don't know, I don't know. It was
a great story. It's one of their secret societies. Yeah,
(04:24):
and I'm not surprised to hear that the Harvard Law
School is pretty diverse because l Woods was there and
she diversifies everything. I don't know who that is that's
illegally blonde reference. Okay, oh man, the ear got it
starting to complete a little bit, you know, it twitched
into light. Also, before we really dive in, Chuck, I
(04:47):
have to say, am I dreaming right now? Because we're
sitting next to each other and it just is is
beyond weird. I just have to go on about another minute, Like,
we haven't recorded together in over a year, we haven't
been in the same room together, and over here, I
don't know I have been in a room with a
person who's not my wife without a mask on, same here,
(05:11):
without number one hyperventilating or doing it at all. And
then the fact that we're going to be sitting here
together for like hours. It's just mind boggling to me. Hey,
get back to everybody a science, are you? Yes? It is,
Josh and I will not die because of this. No, No,
because we were backed. We're gonna grow that baby head
(05:32):
out of our back that like the bosses around it happens.
But other than that, we're gonna be good alright. Ivy Leagues. Yeah,
So one of the things that I had, the Grabster
helped us out with this one. Um, and I had
no idea what the IVY League truly is like when
everybody thinks of the IVY League, you think of, if
you know what you're talking about eight schools, sometimes referred
(05:55):
to as the Ancient Eight. There among the oldest schools
in America. You got Brown Go Bears, Colombia Go Lins,
Cornell Go Big Red, Dartmouth Go Big Green, Harvard Go Crimson, yea,
the Crimson tide Um, Pennsylvania Go Quakers. Yeahs um Princeton
(06:20):
Go Tigers. And then yeah, Hodgments all the model Hodgmans.
And of those eight, seven of them were founded before
the United States was even around. Yeah, I mean that's
kind of one of the cool things about the IVY League,
which spoiler, it's really just an athletic conference. That's what
I didn't know. Did you know that? You know, I
think I knew that, But when I first started looking
(06:42):
into this as a topic, you think of IVY League
as a concept, rightfully, I think, because it is that,
but at its root it is it's a sports athletic conference. No,
it's kind of weird because one of the other things
you don't think of when you think of the IVY
League is sports. Yeah, not really, it's I mean, if
you're in defensing, rowing, lacrosse, um wrestling, share backgammon, UM
(07:07):
track and field, you might think of the I V
S and in fact, like UM women's rowing has been
dominated apparently by UM the IVY League's cry Brown and um, oh,
I think it's Cornell women. If I'm not mistaken, I'll
look I haven't written down somewhere else, So if that's
not right, I'll correct myself or totally forget to correct
(07:28):
myself as usual. Um. But yeah, for the most part,
you don't think sports, even though they do play. It's
a Division one A A conference also known as Division
one FCS, so they're not Division one A like they
wouldn't normally play like Georgia or or Alabama or something
like that. All right, they play teams like UM, Howard University,
(07:52):
Holy Cross, UM San Diego, like the kind of universities
you're like, oh, I didn't know they had a College
for All team, Like that's the Division Division one FCS. Yeah,
and occasionally the IVY League will get a basketball team
that's pretty good. Yeah, I'm talking about it feels like
once every fifteen years or so. Yale has had some
(08:14):
pretty long good streaks, right, I don't remember Harvard and
Princeton have had a couple of teams that like went
to the March Madness Tournament and you know, it's h
they're they're kind of fun to watch. It's a bunch
of it's a three point shooting fests from from a
bunch of white kids, is it. Yeah, yeah, those are
fun though. I like three point shooting fests. So I
really love the Golden State Warriors for a while there
(08:35):
not these days though, No, no, yeah, I mean they've
kind of hit on hard time, Chuck. I don't know
if you know. Oh I knew they did last year,
but I thought they were coming back. So the thing
is that was like what we're talking about sports? People
are like, why are you talking about sports? This is
how the IVY League episode, How the IVY League Works episode.
(08:57):
So um, we're gonna basically stop talking about sports in
a little bit. But you have to talk about sports
because it's like you said, it's a sports league, but
it's it's just just completely disingenuous to say, like, Okay,
that's at the IVY League is a sports league. It's
so much more than that has really so little to
do with it being a sports league. It just so
happens that these elite institutions that were elite long before
(09:20):
the sport of football came around, happened to join into
a conference together informed a yeah sports conference. Yeah, but
it it really is a concept, and it's you know,
it's a grouping of schools, like you said, are among
the oldest, the most prestigious. Uh, we'll talk about their
elite status and whether or not that's true. It is
(09:42):
whether or not they are elitists. They can be, but
they're trying to fix that, Josh not you know, those
ears can't see you. I don't know that's the point.
But yeah, I mean it's where I mean, we'll get
to all this, but it's where the presidents of the
unit I did States and Supreme Court justices and CEOs
(10:03):
of huge law firms and companies go to school. You know. Yeah.
The idea is that if you make it into an
ivy League school, you can basically write your own ticket
from the United States, right. Yeah, And it's been that
way for a really long time and for a really
long time that that is just how it was. But
then when they started to kind of expand and try
to be bastions of higher education that serve also seoeconomic
(10:28):
status is give the best and the brightest, regardless of
your income a fast track to that. It became clear
that that's not necessarily how it works. That in a
lot of ways, Ivy League schools really are just this
conveyor belt for dynasties, you know that that just serve
the highest echelons of society. But it is it's unfair
(10:49):
to say that they aren't doing anything about that or
don't do anything about it. They do try to counteract that. So, uh,
if I were to write my own ticket, you know
it would be Jay Walking. Really, I was gonna say Aerosmith.
I didn't think about that kind of ticure. Man. Yeah, man,
you gotta expand your mind. Now I gotta pay some
stupid Jaywalkee. Fine, and you're rocking out to Arios. Now
(11:13):
you met the wrong direction with that, al right, So
I guess we can talk about the origin of the
name IVY League. Um, there is one. Well, there are
a couple of stories that that are not true that
you still hear people say are true in certain circles.
None Ivy circles. Uh. It's that when they first got
together to talk about forming a sports league, there were
(11:34):
four schools, so they used the Roman numeral four, which
is an I V and they called themselves ivy league.
That is not true, or that I saw a kind
of elitist lee. Um. It was the outsiders saw the
Roman numeral four and called the ivy incorrectly, which is
even more like even worse. But yes, that's just not true.
(11:56):
There's another story that's a little closer to the truth
that this one sport writer in the thirties um complained
that he was gonna have to watch the ivy grow
at some of these IVY covered institutions when he was
assigned to cover I think a Columbia football game, right, Yeah,
Columbia Penn game in nineteen thirty seven, and Casswell Adams
(12:17):
was not too happy about that assignment. No, and so
his his editor, guy named Stanley Woodward of the New
York Herold Tribune, took that ivy thing and ran within
created the ivy League. That story is probably not true either,
but it does seem like Stanley Woodward is a good
bet for the person who came up with the term
ivy league, right, and then in nineteen thirty five was
(12:39):
officially used in print from AP editor Alan Gould. But
it seems like the It seems like it might just
be as simple as the fact that these are schools
that literally have a bunch of buildings with ivy colored walls,
not colored, but ivy growing on the walls, right, which
is this kind of um It has like a distinguished
(13:01):
air to it. It's it lends like this umw super
upper crust vibe ivy. Letting ivy grow up the walls
of your institution. It's definitely like it's a certain thing
and it creates a certain vibe. And that vibe just
happens to be exactly what the Ivy League schools are
all about. And I mean they even have like ivy
planting ceremonies for incoming classes. Um. And I believe all
(13:27):
except Yale let ivy grow still. But Yale, I think,
starting back in the eighties started cutting their's back because
it's actually not good for your building. Ivy roots get
into masonry joints, they hold moisture. It's not a it's
a bad jam basically, and it can really cut into
your annual take from your endowment to fix those buildings.
So Yale said no more. They have a little bit
(13:49):
of ivy crawling up a couple of halls, but for
the most part it's gone from the campus. I've got
IVY on my part of one of my privacy fences
between my neighbor and I built that privous defence when
we moved in myself with my own hands, and IVY
started growing and now as a complete wall of IVY
and it looks awesome. Yeah, I think it's a mosquito farm,
(14:12):
is what I've heard, but I don't want to. I mean,
I trim it back, but I'm gonna leave it there
because it looks really cool. It's also chipmunks love to
live in there too, So how can you how can
you do away with the chipmunk house? Can't get rid
of their habitat? Where would they go? I know? Um,
you want to take a little break. Yeah, I'm gonna
go get a Q tip for this microphone. Okay, I'll
(14:34):
be right back. I'm gonna go breathe into a paper
bank for a little bit. That's so much stuff from
Josh and shock stuff you sh all right, chuck. So
(15:01):
we're back. Um. And So the IVY League, as we
were saying, basically came out of the formation of the
sports league itself. It was probably a sports editor named
Stanley Woodward came up with the name UM. And what
I think really just kind of underscores the IVY League's
approached to sports is that the reason the IVY League formed,
(15:24):
and it try there are some stops and starts in
the beginning of the twentieth century, especially in like the
thirties UM, where you know, not all eight were involved
or at all eight were allowed in and some people
were mad and all that, and it just didn't quite
come together until the mid forties when they came together
and formed the Ivy Group Agreement in all eight schools
(15:45):
didn't and they basically did it to say, uh, we're
really worried about this kind of growing influence of sports,
and in particular football, we want to make sure that
doesn't happen in our school. So they formed a sports
league to better control roll football as far as it's
balanced with academic life. That's what the IVY League Sports
(16:06):
League was based on. Yeah, and I think there were
some worries too about the danger of football early on,
because you know, back then, actually I'm trying to think
of what the helmets were like. They were not much.
They were basically like um, like a sheep skin wrapped
around her head and then you hope for the best. No,
I think that was post just leather heads years. I
(16:28):
don't know. I think that was still into the fouries.
I think it was maybe the late fifties early sixties
when they started like the helmet with the single ball
but faces right, No, nothing like that. I remember at
the college or the Pro Football Hall of Fame they
have like the helmets through the years right when you
kind of first come in, and it is pretty jarring
to look at those early ones and drink that those
(16:49):
guys were just so concussed. The widow maker, that's what
they called that leather helmet with the ears. Yeah we're
okay and protected. But yeah, I think they just took
like the little wrestling ears and threw some leather on
top of that. Uh so, Yeah, they signed the Ivy
Group Agreement. They said football is dangerous and we don't
(17:10):
want it to get in the way of school. And
then in fifty four they expanded that to include all
the competitions athletic athletically speaking. And then I think in
nineteen fifty six they actually started playing these sports and
they finally got around into it. Then yeah, and it
was I think there was the Eastern Intercollegiate Basketball League
(17:33):
was where they first played basketball in nineteen o one,
and then they rolled that into the IVY League when
they finally came around in fifty six. So they like
to claim, uh that they are the oldest n C
Double A Division one basketball conference because of that first
UH was that the E I b L Um not
(17:54):
the prettiest acronym I've ever seen. Um, But the that
IVY group agree. And then later on the formation of
the IVY League, UM, like I was saying, they wanted
to balance academics with sports. There were basically like, these
students are here to learn, but if they have time
or they're interested in sports, shirt, we'll let them play sports.
So they kind of um sketched out some rules that
(18:16):
other universities and colleges would find to be utter madness. UM,
no athletic scholarships whatsoever, Like if you you can't go
to an IVY League school and an athletic scholarship, like
financially it's supposed to be reserved for the the the
brightest students of less means or lower means than the
(18:39):
other kids. Right you also, UM, if you end up
in a championship or a playoff or something. What do
you have to do if you're the team, Well, you
don't go. Uh, although I guess basketball is an exception
because they have played in the March Madness tournament. But
I know that if they if I mean must be
(18:59):
on the football teams, probably not gonna make I know,
it's not really a problem if you think about it.
But if they did, supposedly they would have to skip
the ball game. Uh. They don't allow grad students to play,
although that's not the most common thing even at other schools.
They also switched that this year because of the coronavirus.
If you were a senior and you didn't get to
play in but you're gonna be a grad student at
(19:20):
the same IVY League school, they're letting you play one
more year, which is like a huge till a first
year at Harvard law student could play football Yeah and dominate. Yeah,
I dominate on the line and in case law. Uh.
And then what's the other one. Oh, they don't allow
red shirts, right, the practice of red shirting a student. Yeah,
(19:41):
because I mean, you're a pretty serious you have a
serious sports program. If you're taking people and being like
I think you're gonna be better as a junior and
senior or as a freshman. We want to add an
extra year onto your school. So where this red shirt
around for the next twelve Monthent do not take it off.
Real should be disqualified. You're not allowed. So and I
mean these rules have been in place in SSPECTED for
decades now, since the since the nineteen forties when they
(20:04):
first came together. So um, that's not to say though
that even even though they're not very good at football
and not necessarily very good at basketball, that there aren't
like any teams or any individuals that excel at sports
and win national championships. Like I said, um, Brown and Yale,
it was the Yale women who um dominate rowing. I
(20:27):
don't know Brown, Brown and Yaka yeah yeah, um, but
I think it said earlier Cornell. Right now, I think
I said earlier Cornell. But it's it's Brown and Yale,
who are um women who are both good at rowing.
Yeah you could, if you're a wrestler, you could do
pretty well at one of the schools. Yeah, you could
end up on the Gray Fox team or if you're
(20:50):
on the ski team, if you know, if your university
has a ski team. Then that says a lot already.
It really does. First of all, it says you're from
the Northeast. But also it's is that you probably came
from a wealthy high school that had a ski team. Yea,
which is a thing that we'll talk about later on. Well,
sure that these sports are for people with money generally? Yeah,
(21:11):
basically that, um, because there's not a really good basketball
team or football team there. I think their baseball teams
are so so too. Hockey team to a little bit. That. Um,
you basically have to come from a wealthy school district
in high school to excel at sports in these universities. Yeah,
I mean, I guess that kind of sets us up
(21:32):
for the big question is whether or not these are
elitist schools. I think they're sort of in a I
don't know about a pickle. I think they're in a
constant pickle trying to be elite without appearing elitist. That's
a that's a tough act, believe me. Yeah, Oh that's funny. Um,
And they are elite schools, Like if you go to
(21:55):
an Ivy League school, they say you have a five
to sixfold advantage relative to random distribution of attainment of
a top position in business or government. So you're five
to six times more likely to be a CEO or
to be that Supreme Court justice, right, especially if you
go to business or law school. Right, but yeah, anything
finance or law. I think eight of the nine current
(22:17):
justices went there, except for Amy Coney Barrett, who went
to Notre Dame Well the Catholic Ivy Yeah, that's true,
I guess, um. Yeah, so yeah, if you're on the
Supreme Court, there's an extraordinarily high likelihood you are a
graduate of not just an undergraduate of um An Ivy League,
but also a graduate of an Ivy League law school.
It's just it's just not done to have a Supreme
(22:39):
Court justice who isn't so. Amy Comy Barrett definitely bucks
that trend. Um. But presidents tend to be. I think
thirty four of all presidents in the United States ever
went to um An Ivy League school, either for undergrad
or grad. And then five of the last six. Can
(23:00):
you guess who number six is who did not go?
Joe Biden. Joe Biden went. He went to Delaware and
he went to Syracuse Law. Yeah, because the previous president
went to Wharton. Well, he went to Penn and then
I think he went on as well. And Wharton's the
business school at you pen, right, and just crushed it. Yeah,
(23:20):
Obama went to Columbia, that's right. Um, George w went
to Yale because he was a legacy. His father went
to you and he's a skull and bones guy to it.
What about Clinton? Where did he go? Clinton went to
Georgetown and then I believe he went to Yale. Law.
I was so hoping he was a razorback you think so?
I think I moved to Arkansas after that. They were like,
(23:43):
what state can we take over? Um? So, as far
as the education goes, you know, it's sort of one
of those things where the education, of course is great.
No one's gonna knock an IVY League school education with
a straight face, so don't think we're doing that. But
there is that weird effect where getting the job because
(24:06):
you have that on your resume is a thing you
can't you just can't deny that, right. It's just the
reputation of the IVY leagues alone, Yes, sustain their reputation.
Success breeds success exactly. So if you have a degree
from an IVY League university. The doors are going to
(24:29):
open for you just because you have a degree from
an Ivy League university, Like you can stipend for position
at a Wall Street law firm and be less qualified,
probably as far as actually doing the work goes, than
somebody who went to Georgia who's smarter and more capable
(24:50):
than you. And you're probably going to get the job
because you went to an Ivy League school, because they
have the reputation. And the thing is, the Ivy Leagues
are well away of this. They know that that it
would be really easy to rest on their laurels and
just you know, let anybody in as long as your
parents have the money to donate, like a new wing
(25:11):
of the library or something. The library I don't know,
but it always donate a food all yeah, great, um.
But the I think that they try to balance that
out as much as possible, at least to some degree,
because they know that eventually the reputation is going to
fall because it turns out that all of the Harvard
(25:31):
people are really actually dummies. The problem is is in
the meantime, those people who are making their way to
the top just by virtue of having gone to the
Ivy leagues aren't necessarily the best in the brightest, and
since they're aggregating at the top, that means the leadership
is not necessarily the best in the brightest. And they're
(25:53):
also recruiting and drafting and opening doors and creating policies
that benefit people like them rather than necessarily everybody else.
And then the final factor of this chuck is that
because those people went to IVY League schools and the
rest of us are just awed by Ivy League schools.
The fact that they have Ivy League credentials means that
(26:14):
their ideas, that those policies they come up with, that
the that the decisions they make are inherently right because
their IVY League credentials. So it's a big or borrows
with like multiple tales going into multiple amounts, but it's
all one big thing. It's a human centipede, and it's
like a real right, it's a real um, it's a
(26:35):
real like balancing act because the the fate of the nation,
in a large part um not entirely, we'll get to that,
but in large part rests in the in the hands
of these these IVY League schools who are producing tomorrow's leaders.
That's true there was a study that found that top
executives are not dominated by these elite schools, but they
(26:57):
are overrepresented. So, like I said, that five to sixfold
advantage to get that top position in the business if
you went to an IVY League school, I think they're
all about on part though with like m I T, Stanford, Caltech, Um,
you know, there are plenty of non IVY schools that
also are kind of up there with them as far
as um, maybe not representation, but at least um breathing
(27:21):
in the same rarefied air. Yeah, there's a there's a
stratum called IVY Plus which includes Stanford, Duke, University of Chicago,
and m I T. As people consider that, and then
there's also people who are like, well, don't forget Georgetown
and don't forget you know, um, I think you see
Berkeley is sometimes yeah, Berkeley probably, So there's in a
(27:42):
few Northwestern maybe yes, um, if you if you step back,
they would look at these schools on paper, some of
these other schools probably blow IVY League schools out of
the water as far as just like education, Yeah, but
in specific areas, there are specific like if you want
to to understand business, go to Warton Business cool. If
you want to like practice law in any like to
(28:04):
learn law, Harvard Law, Yale Law, those are really good choices. Uh.
If you want to learn everything you need to know
about the food service industry, go to Cornell. Uh. They
have a huge like restaurant, Hospitality and food science division. Yeah.
I don't know why, but it's as good as it
gets right. So um, But there's other schools that are like,
like trying to go to Harvard for engineering rather than
(28:25):
m I T. Like you'd be a dumb to do that.
So in that sense, m I T blows Harvard out
of the water. The thing is, it doesn't matter. It's
m I T is not Ivy League school. Harvard is
so Harvard has an extra veneer of prestige that the
average dumb dumb will just be blown away by right.
Georgia has a good journalism school, sure, great veterinary program,
(28:47):
large animal vet Uh. Yeah. And then for guys like us,
it's also a place where you could go and get
a decent state school education and have a lot of fun. Yeah.
Cheapest forty ounces in the state. Oh man, Georgie used
to be really cheap. I think tuition has gone up.
But back when we were there, like it was like
six dollars a quarter or something. It was ridiculous. Wow,
(29:10):
that is that's cheap. I'll bet it's going up. And
George has got a lot harder to get into as
well since we were there, Like I don't think the other. Yeah,
well I'm gonna start it, George. Uh. These schools too, Like,
not only do you have to have a lot of
money to go there, they are incredibly rich and wealthy schools. Um.
(29:31):
They have endowments totaling for all of them combined a
hundred and forty billion dollars, with Harvard's endowment alone being
forty billion. I think the lowest is Brown's Piddley little
four point two billion and ed conjectures here, But I
think he's probably kind of right that. You know, when
you have an endowment, it's not um, it's not just
(29:52):
a big loaded bank account, but it's it's an investment portfolio.
Could to make more money on that money. And if
you leave a ton of money is a Harvard alum
to their endowment fund and then you end up running
a business, they might invest in your business or something
like that. It's possible. I haven't seen anything, but I
mean it makes sense. Then there's like such a you know,
(30:12):
one hand washing the other kind of thing. Ivy like
schools in particular, because they are these conveyor belts for
a dynas one hand washing the other. Yeah, okay, you
haven't heard that. I don't think so how else are
you gonna write your own ticket rights? I've heard of one.
You know, you scratch my back out, scratch yours. One
(30:33):
hand washes the other, same thing. But how do you
wash your hand without just with just one hand? That's
what I'm saying. Okay, I got you, don't. You don't
in there right here? Kid it man, that thing's so creepy.
I'm just waiting for blood to start trickling out a
one of them. That means we're doing a bad job.
(30:53):
Should we take another break? Yeah, let's take another break.
We'll come back and talk more about endowments, because it
is a thing, all right, So much stuff from Josh
and shock alright, Chuck, So we're talking about endowments. You
(31:24):
said Harvard's alone is forty billion. They're will endowed just
right exactly, um hanged, just just from that alone, just
the fact that they have in their investment portfolio forty
billion dollars they reaped I think two hundred nineties six
billion dollars million. Sorry, they made two hundred ninety six
(31:47):
million dollars in growth off of their forty billion portfolio. UM.
I think in two thousand seventeen, that's great. It's good return.
It is a great return, UM. And it was tech free.
Had it happened in two thousand and sixteen, it would
have been tax free those universities and times even though
their private universities, their nonprofit universities, and their endowments were
(32:10):
non taxed until ironically, the two thousand seventeen tax package
was passed and there was one point five tax one
percent tax on university endowments. Yeah, so Harvard made a
big stink about how they had to cough up fifty
million dollars in taxes that year. But if you're using
all two nine million from that year for things like
(32:33):
you know, building a new library wing, maybe a food hall,
I don't know. Or if you're a teaching hospital, university hospital, um,
you might build a new hospital wing or something like that. Supposedly,
supposedly you're supposed to use a lot of this also
to basically pay for free rides for UM low income
(32:54):
students who who otherwise wouldn't be able to make it.
That's what endowments are meant to be for. But just
the fact that the these these UM universities has that
huge adownmants make some targets for for ire and it
just kind of underscores just how unlike the rest of
us they are. You know, a hundred hundred forty billion total. Yeah,
(33:18):
between the eight schools. That that definitely separates them in
that respect. But the the from that adownmant though, they're
they're investing in their students education. That's what they're supposed
to be doing with the overall and there is a
big difference. If you go to an IVY League school, UM,
you are probably going to have about nine dollars invested
in you personally, uh each year over the course of
(33:42):
your career. If you go to an IVY League school,
every resource you need, I imagine, yea, the professors are
well paid, so you're gonna be the best of the best.
The facilities are in great shape. Exactly, we're out of
gas again, UM and a second tier school, and I
use I just made air was choking tests, and so
can the year. UM. The second tier schools, which is
(34:05):
basically anything that's not like the top twenties maybe twenty
five universities, but still really good schools. Phil spend an
average of about twelve thousand dollars per student compared to
what right now, So they are putting money into their
students education, short of the endowment, but still forty billions
(34:25):
a lot of money. It's a lot of money. As
far as getting into an IVY League school, it is
tough obviously. Uh. Their acceptance rates are anywhere from about
three and a half percent to fifteen percent, depending on
the year in the school. I think Harvard has the
lowest rate. UH, Stanford Northwestern and Georgetown or non ivys
with about the same acceptance rate. So it's not specific
(34:49):
to IVY schools. UM. But there have been a couple
of scandals in recent years, notably a couple of years
ago with Lori Laughlin and who was the other actor, Um,
the lady from married Yes, Suzanne Summers, Yes, sers, I
(35:11):
can't remember her name. She was on Desperate Housewives, Felicity. Uh,
boy Macy skated on that too, didn't he. Oh yeah,
he was like good lucky. Yeah, prison, But that was
the big revelation that parents who had rich parents, who
had kids that were kind of not qualified to get
(35:33):
into these schools. Let's say, we're very diplomatic. We're trying
to make we're trying to get them into school by
uh getting them in through the sports program. So we
said that they can't offer scholarships, and that's true, But
what they can do is a coach can go to
the administration and say, hey, like, you know, I know,
(35:56):
you saved us a few slots for admission at least,
and they won't get a scholarship, but can you can
you get Lorie Laughlin's daughter in here on a field
hockey scholarship? And they're like, but she doesn't play field hockey,
but she never has, Like, well, I know, but they
made quite a donation to the new science wing or
the field hockey wing. The coach that x me on
(36:16):
the hockey. Hey, but this was bribery, and they you
know she's is she in jail now or is she
just out? I believe she's out. Her husband, you know
she's out. Her husband may be out again now. I
think they reduced a sentence to they threw the book
at him for six months, and I think they had
him served like a month or something, right, because they
kind of fought things. I remember Felicity Huffman really just
(36:39):
eight Crow apologized to herself at the mercy of the
court of public opinion and the real court, which was
definitely the right move. I think she was very ashamed
and came out and said, so, where's Lori Laughlin's kind
of like, I'm gonna fight this. It's like, that's not
the right move. That was a great Lori Lawlin impression,
by the way, but that was a very big deal.
(37:00):
Like that kind of rocked the entertainment slash academic world
for a little while. Yeah, and I think a lot
of people didn't realize that IVY leagues have these coaches
slots where the coach can say, let this kid in.
I want them on my fencing team. Best fencer I've
ever seen. You ought to see this guy with a foil, right,
But yeah, the idea that not only were these kids
not qualified to go to an IVY league school, but
they also weren't even any good at sports. They were
(37:21):
just using this backdoor thing that's not good at all.
What about that other the anti Asian bias scandal. Yeah,
so the UM. You know, you talked about Harvard's acceptance
rate being three point four percent. That was for that's
low even for Harvard. It's not necessarily Harvard's fault that
their acceptance rate is so low. They usually have about
the same number in each class every year and have
(37:45):
for decades. It's just that more and more people are
applying to it. Apparently, there's there's academic coaches that UM
basically just just help you fill out forms and tell
you how to apply to different colleges, and they their
their rise has been commensary with the flood of applications
in the IVY leagues. So more and more people are applying,
(38:08):
but the which means the acception rate is getting lower
and lower, even though the class size has been the same.
The point of that is that these classes are curated
almost idea leagues. And if you just went on academics
just a plus four point oh somehow their g p
A was even above four point or four period. Oh
(38:29):
I'm sorry, um, they you would have way more Asian
children in the IVY IVY League schools, but you don't.
So this this group sued Harvard and said you know,
you have an anti Asian bias. And Harvard was like,
it's not an anti astion biased. We more just sculpt
each class. Not only did they look at a well
(38:52):
rounded student with a bunch of different different like interest
in pursuits and community service in addition to their grades.
They try to look at a class like that to
the as symbol what does this class look like? And
you know, for what it's worth, they were I think
they were sued by an anti affirmative action group and
(39:12):
they said, um, they won, and then they won the
appeal Harvard yeah, and yeah, Harvard won. Then they won
the appeal and I think it's still in the courts
for I guess another repeal. But um, yeah, I mean
I think they're it seems like they're trying to do
that in the name of diversity, which is ironic because
you know, if you're a minority, if you're Asian, your minority. So, um,
(39:37):
I could see crying foul against that. But there, you know,
there are lots of minorities, and I guess they're trying
to create a diverse class at least that's what they're saying. Yeah,
and they and one of the places where diversity really
needs to be boosted. Though, is UM on socioeconomic status?
Apparently there's UM. There's a group called UM Opportunity Insights
(39:58):
dot org and it's some IVY leaguers who got together
to kind of study how IVY leaguers serve American society
and UM. They released these detailed reports every once in
a while, and the most recent one says that UM,
the middle middle income kids are being left out, that
the like the IVY leagues are going for like the
(40:21):
real like rags to riches success story to boost like
their image, and as a result, they're also they're leaving
out some of the middle where if you just took
kids who were who had scored at least a fourteen
hundred on the s A t um as as qualification
and left income out of it middle income kids, would
(40:44):
I think the representation would go up by like ten
percent or something crazy like that. UM. But that's not
the case. You have very very high income kids, like
for example, if you're student, or if you're student with
parents in the top one per cent of Amrican economic brackets, UM,
you're seventy seven times more likely to attend an IVY
(41:07):
league than a student with a parent and the lowest
twenty which is crazy because there's only one point two
million households in the one in the top one percent,
but there's twenty one million households in the bottom twenty percent.
But those kids in the top one percent are still
seventy seven times likelier to go to an Ivy League school.
(41:27):
That right there is do you just drop the mic?
Right there? There's you? You just there's no argument like
they serve the the highest chalons of American society and
help the next generation stay in the highest echelons of
American society. If you drop this mic, you're gonna injure that.
Here another stat here. In seventeen, more than twenty percent
(41:48):
of Dartmouth students were from the top one percent of
earning families, and fourteen point four percent came from the
bottom six of families by income. And at don't have
the stat but I guarantee you that most of those
fell between like the fiftieth and sixty percentile. I'd be
curious to see what like the bottom ten percent looks like,
(42:09):
but it's it's probably super super low. So um. I
saw another study from the Opportunity Insights where they were
saying like, Okay, the key here what you're looking for
to raise people up out of the lower socioeconomic levels
to the higher ones through a college education are two.
There's two factors. One is access. They've got to be
(42:30):
able to have access to that education. So how how
many lower income students is this this U university accepting?
And then mobility, which is how many go from the
bottom quintile to the highest quintiles in their career in life? Yeah,
like say ten years on? Yeah, right or yeah, over
their lifetime there, Well, they found that I vs are
(42:51):
not They're great at mobility. They can get people out
of the bottom twenty pent in the top no problem,
but so can second tier school and second tier schools
have much greater access. It's much easier to get in,
and they're also a lot cheaper over there. I think
Harvard's like fifty grand a year now or something like. Yeah,
but although if you are in that bottom income bracket,
(43:12):
you're gonna be getting grants out the wazoo, right, but
it's hard to get in. Access is shut down. The
mobility is pretty good, but it's also just as good
as a second tier. Now, if you take away that
moving people from the bottom twenty to the top. And
you look at moving people from the bottom twenty percent
to the top one percent, then Ivy leagues just below
(43:33):
everybody else out of the water. There's a good chance
that if you are from the lowest twenty percent of
earners and do we're talking dollars a year less, there's
twenty twenty two million households in the US that make that. Um,
if you come from that quintile and you get into
(43:54):
an IVY League school, there's a pretty decent chance you're
going to be in the top one percent of earners
ten years after you graduate. Yeah, what is this stat
doesn't make sense here at the end, then Princeton students
were pell grant eligible, but only one point three percent
of their students entered poor and became rich later in life. Yeah,
i'd be right. I don't. Yeah, I think different studies
(44:15):
turn up different stuff. So that is just from a
different study. And it also it has to do with
the measurement. I mean, like maybe this is over lifetime
earnings or something like that. Right, That's just that was startling. Um,
there is a good quote here. I think we should
read that. Uh, and it's it's sort of on the
idea that just because you got into Harvard Um, your
(44:36):
problems are solved as far as your connections and socially,
and I think it has the reputation once you're if
you're a student there, and if you are from one
of those lower income families that sort of like Robbie
coming from Georgia to their law school, they're like, well,
you're still not really one of us. You got in
and you're getting these grants. I know you're smart and everything,
(44:57):
but you're you're not a blue blow like we are.
And we're gonna have a bunch of clubs that are expensive,
have really expensive dues and secret societies, and we can
still segregate within this school pretty successfully, and you're not
gonna have the connections we're gonna have even though you
went here with us. Uh In this one student from
UH I think he was Haitian said in the Washington
(45:21):
Post article, they're constant reminders they have to forge a
place for myself within the world that has been constructed
for someone else. So, you know, it's great that they
are getting some of these kids in the school and
trying to diversify, but that's only step one into truly integrating.
You know. Yeah, that's exactly what happened to Elwood's. Yeah,
(45:42):
I get the reference. Now you got anything else? Have
you not ever seen Illegally Blonde? I don't think so.
It's all the way through Emily has for sure, and
Legally Blond two is one of the better sequels ever
Blonde Ambition, I think so. Yeah, she goes through the
same exact thing, but this time in d C. I'm
not sure how I knew that. Um, well, you just
(46:02):
pull it out of thin air. That's right, you got
anything else? Got nothing else? Okay, everybody, let's ivy leagues.
And that is also the end of our three D
recording um career, at least after this listener mail, because
I said, three D recording career. Hope you enjoyed it.
I'm over here now, I'm over here. Now I'm done here.
(46:22):
Do you think that does anything? Probably? Yeah, it just
made Jerry took all uh and then you gotta finish
your part. Now, did you already forget listener mail? Yeah? No,
I said, that's that's a listener man. How you did,
I said, And that means it's time for listener mail?
Because I said, you did say that. Yeah, I miss Mike.
You all right, Well here I'll do it again. You're ready,
(46:43):
we should leave this part in. Okay, don't even forget already.
I Well, then I get I guess I did. Uh. Well,
since Chuck said I guess I did, that means it's
time for a listener mail. Hey, great set up. I'm
gonna call this feminism from Emily in Chicago. Hey, guys,
the area episode you mentioned doing at least a short
stuff on Betty for Dan. I for one, think it's
(47:05):
a great idea because she's done a lot of important work.
It doesn't really get talked about. But I wanted to
bring you, guys, bring up to you guys. If you
decide to pursue an episode on her, you should know
that she led a movement that was exclusive to white,
middle class heterosexual women. The sixties and seventies was a
time period it was really rich in movements for women
of UH, for women people of color in the LGBTQ community.
(47:26):
Yet all these movements, namely Second Way feminism UH in
the American Indian movement, was guilty of this too. They
excluded poor women, women of color, and women who identified
as lgbt Q women in these groups were advocating for
the same rights as the leaders of these movements, but
oftentimes her voices were just straight up ignored. Betty for
Dan was notorious for budding heads with and kicking out
(47:48):
these types of women, like Rita may Brown, who was
a great feminist writer. This wave of feminism in the
sixties and seventies was definitely important and did deliver great
strides for women, but not all women. I do wanna
don't want to rain on anyone's breed here in any way,
shape or form, but just shed a bit of light
on the many years, I'm sorry, many layers of these movements.
It's important to celebrate the victories for women in minority
(48:09):
groups during this period, but it's also important not to
gloss over the mini flaws that were present. You guys
are great. Your show is an absolute delight. I can't
wait to listen to future episodes. Please keep up the
good work, Take care of yourself, stay safe, stay healthy.
Emily from Chicago, Thanks Emily. It's a great point. Totally
great point. I've learned over the years and from being
a history major, that things, even the most celebrated things,
(48:32):
are rarely just perfect. Yeah. Us. Well, I mean maybe
an exception of the rule. All right, great, Well, if
you want to get in touch of this, like Emily
from Chicago did and say hey, I'm blank from blank
let us know, you can email to us at stuff
podcast and iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know
(48:55):
is a production of I Heeart Radio. For more podcasts
my heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio o app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
M HM.
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